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rfandler
Starting Member
7 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2010 : 15:25:35
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Need Help!! Please, someone who knows what their doing:
Background: I've got a razor e300 electric scooter that originally runs 24 volts (two seriesed 12v 7ah batteries) to a 100-200 watts motor (im not exactly sure which but i think its 200 or even 300). The manual says it should run for about 45 minutes without hills. I've attached 4 additional batteries (12v 7ah). I've seriesed one of the batteries with the original set giving me 36 volts. The other three I've sersiesed together and then paralled them with the first three, so now I've got a 36 volt, 14 amp hour battery pack. I've rigged some switches to where I can switch between 24 and 36 volts and can charge the batteries easily. Now the thing has a turbo switch which kicks it up to 25 mph instead of 15 and it should run twice as long. Okay, thats the background and it all works good.
Now here's the next project I've undertaken: I want to be able to run the scooter fully and solely from solar power. (I've created a switch so I can changed between solar power when in the sun, and battery power, when in the shade.) I've built a solar panel which can attach to the scooter. It has 72 cells rated at .5 volts and 3.6 amps each. So the panel is putting out about 130 watts which should be enough to power my motor. I've series them all together to make a 36 volt 3.6 amp power source. I tested and shows a strong 38 volts in the sun. All my wiring is good but i hit the switch and nothing. I thought maybe I don't have enough amps. So I rewired the solar panel by paralleling two halves of it giving me 18 volts and about 7 amps. Still nothing. When i flip the switch my batteries run the thing fine. Am I lacking in amps still? remember that the scooter originally runs off of 24 volts, 7 amp hour giving it less than 160 watts, right? I could try rewiring the solar panel and testing 9 volts, 14 amps and see what happens. Do I need more cells? Can solar power directly power the scooter motor?
Thank you! |
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moddinmanic97
Journeyman Modder
221 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 15:43:37
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| how do you have the panel hooked up like where are the wires attached to? |
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moddinmanic97
Journeyman Modder
221 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 15:45:21
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| also can you explain exactly how you mooded you e300 i have one of my own 36v 7ah 800w motor but i love modding |
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rfandler
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 16:08:12
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| The negative and positive solar panel wires are attached to the bottom prongs of a switch (6 prong two way switch). The middle (outgoing) prong negative goes to a temporary push switch (my "gas") and then to motor; and the positive middle (outgoing) prong goes straight to motor. THe top two prongs are incoming from my batteries - and when switched to this side, it runs great. I've also tested the voltage from the solar panel right at the switch and I read 36 volts so my wiring should be okay. Thanks for your help in advance! |
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moddinmanic97
Journeyman Modder
221 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 16:47:29
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to use a solar panel as a battery thinggy they would have to connect it to the wires coming from the batteries in series you could attach a switch where the 2 wires from the series connection to turn of the batts and the another switch to turn on the solar panel or complete the circut. that should do it if you wanted the solar panel to charge your batteries you would connect the solar panel to the wires coming from the charger. but other wise if you connect it at the wires from the series connection heres a diagram to help
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gameboy
Administrator
just north of austin
tx
USA
1460 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 04:03:58
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the one thing i know about solar panels is they are rated at full capacity. meaning... the best conditions, with the most light puting out the full power. most times this is not what happens. if you turn the panel away from the sun just a bit it looses amps. it will still have the voltage for a while( if you were to keep turning the amps would go first then the volts) but that would drop off too if you kept turning away.
also, have you ever seen the college solar car races? most of those cars only do about 20 mph and the size of their solar panels are HUGE. they run strictly on solar. so i dont know the size of your panel, but i dont think its big enough to run the scooter and if you want to run it strictly off solar by charging your batteries then i would guess you would need to ride one day let it charge the next and maybe you would have enough juice to ride it the third day.
solar panels are great, but they are just not strong enough for our applications.
i do like your idea and i think the switching between 24/36volts is kickin. do you have any pics of your scooter? i know most here would love to see how you mounted 6 batteries on an e300. |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 06:30:02
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| Gameboy is right. I believe the problem lies in your rated specs of the solar panel. I seriously douby you have 130 watts peak, even in peak sun. I have a 1 square meter kit and it only puts out 45 watts peak. Re-check the specs on your panel and I believe you'll find you don't have anywhere near the required continuous watts. Best case scenario, you may be able to rig the panel to charge your batteries (and that will be slow). |
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Oagh
Journeyman Modder
Seattle
wa
USA
223 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 13:23:39
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if the solar panels is 4 foot by 8 foot ,you would just need 1 more Thean you can run your scooter, 
You need 2 Sharp ND216UC1 216-Watt Solar Module Pane
and Sunforce 60032 30 Amp Digital Charge Controller ,well you need a beter one thean that one but it would work
about $1000.00 us cash with out taxes
solar panels info
Maximum Power (Pmax)* 216 W
Tolerance of Pmax +10%/-5%
Type of Cell Polycrystalline silicon
Cell Confi guration 60 in series
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) 36.5 V
Maximum Power Voltage (Vpm) 28.9 V
Short Circuit Current (Isc) 8.10 A
Maximum Power Current (Ipm) 7.48 A
Module Effi ciency (%) 13.3%
Maximum System (DC) Voltage 600 V
Series Fuse Rating 15 A
NOCT 47.5°C
Temperature Coeffi cient (Pmax) -0.485%/°C
Temperature Coeffi cient (Voc) -0.36%/°C
Temperature Coeffi cient (lsc) 0.053%/°C
Allways Plug The Charger into the scooter ,Before You Plug it into The Wall.
Allways UnPlug The Charger from The Wall Before UnPluging It From The scooter. |
Edited by - Oagh on 07/09/2010 13:32:01 |
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rfandler
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 12:25:57
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Well I am going to try to parallel the solar panel to my current battery pack. They both give out 36v and I hope this will allow the motor to pull from both the solar panel and the batteries and thus extend battery life. Also, since I've installed a blocking diode I think the solar panel can be charging the batteries while sitting. I did some initial controlled tests and it seemed to work well- after 50 minutes with the solar panel switched on I lost much less voltage than when I tested it off. But the real test will come soon when I hit the road with it. Tell me what you think!
I will send pics when I get it totally finished. And the battery pack isn't anything special. I just ghetto rigged it in a plastic container under the seat. Thanks for all the help! |
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Oagh
Journeyman Modder
Seattle
wa
USA
223 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 17:51:14
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I hope you get it working and show it off.
I was think on it , I think you can do it .
Allways Plug The Charger into the scooter ,Before You Plug it into The Wall.
Allways UnPlug The Charger from The Wall Before UnPluging It From The scooter. |
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drewbad
Starting Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 13:19:49
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| If you have your switch wired so you can flip it ony-the-fly, have you tried doing this in full sun after you start on battery power? Maybe you don't have the starting amps but you might have enough to keep you crawling after you're already rolling? Curious to hear back. |
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drmonkeybrains
Starting Member
Kelowna
BC
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 18:08:16
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is there some way to hook a panel up to charge a 48v set up?
Dr. M |
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gameboy
Administrator
just north of austin
tx
USA
1460 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 18:58:25
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| sure, most panels are 12v, so you would need 4 of them in series to make the 48v you need. but i dont think thats the way you want to charge. it would take a long time or the panels would be pretty big and there is no battery monitor to make sure you dont overcharge. |
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drmonkeybrains
Starting Member
Kelowna
BC
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 21:33:09
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ok..just wondering. ty
Dr. M |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 08:55:44
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Since I've already voiced my opinion on this not working, I won't say it again (oops). But here is what you need to charge at 48V:
1) any number of working solar panels (more is better)
2) panels wired to a solar charge controller
3) solar charge controller wired to deep cycle battery (large boat battery)
4) large boat battery wired to an inverter (100 watt minimum)
5) 48V charger hooked to inverter
6) charger hooked to scooter
In other words, it is not worth it, dont try it, won't work while on the move in a blazing sun.
Take it for what its worth, or try it and see for yourself. |
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gameboy
Administrator
just north of austin
tx
USA
1460 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 10:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
In other words, it is not worth it, dont try it, won't work while on the move in a blazing sun.
Take it for what its worth, or try it and see for yourself.
lol |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 13:35:19
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This will work. You can do this. You can hook up the wires directly to the motor and the motor will run. Its all DC so it will work but I think you hooked up your switch wrong. Thats where the problem is.
A solar powered scooter is not hard to make but if you want power and distance then you will be needing more cells if running only on Solar power.
Have a flat bike trailer with them all laid out on it using a 4` X 8` sheet of plywood. Thin plywood like 1/4 inch thick. (You can make it 12feet long for even more panels).
Forget about using any switches. If you are running 36volt batteries, hook up 36volts of Solar power directly to the batteries parallel.This WILL INCREASE you run time and distance.
Dont forget: The voltage Must be the same as the batteries. And the more amps worth in Solar panels, the more distance and run time. And every time you stop, the solar panels will be charging the batteries. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 13:45:05
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So you have a 36 volt/14amp Battery pack. Now with your Solar Panels, you say they are 72cells .5 volt so thats 36volts. And you say the amps per cell is 3.6amps so adding it to the 14amp battery pack you will have :
14amps+3.6amps= 17.6amps
Thats like having a 17.6Ah battery pack. And again, when you stop, the Solar Panels will start charging the battery pack.
Awesome! |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 14:36:18
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moddinmanic97
Journeyman Modder
221 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 15:07:31
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timmy where can you buy that roll of solar cells?
Razor e300 36v 1000w Motor Under Construction
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 16:33:26
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| I Googled "Solar Panels" and looked at a bunch of websites and I liked the picture. Not sure what website its from. They are made of silicone instead of aluminum framing. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 16:46:33
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 09:17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
Since I've already voiced my opinion on this not working, I won't say it again (oops). But here is what you need to charge at 48V:
1) any number of working solar panels (more is better)
2) panels wired to a solar charge controller
3) solar charge controller wired to deep cycle battery (large boat battery)
4) large boat battery wired to an inverter (100 watt minimum)
5) 48V charger hooked to inverter
6) charger hooked to scooter
In other words, it is not worth it, dont try it, won't work while on the move in a blazing sun.
Take it for what its worth, or try it and see for yourself.
lol why do you need a large boat battery and an inverter? |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 17:46:51
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I don't understand the boat battery need.
You just hook up the Solar panels direct to the scooter batteries in parallel and you are done. |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 18:01:01
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| A boat battery is by nature, a deep cycle battery. Do I need to explain it more? |
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gameboy
Administrator
just north of austin
tx
USA
1460 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 08:04:25
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timmy, the solar panels (as a whole) do not put out the amps to run a scooter motor or esc to a scooter motor so you need a battery to run things and a panel to charge, but the battery will still run down and the battery will still need to charge.
solar panels are just not at the stage were they can run things at a decent rate AND be small enough to put on a scooter. you would need a very large solar panel to run a scooter.... not practical.
i will also quote my earlier post
quote:
Posted by gameboy
the one thing i know about solar panels is they are rated at full capacity. meaning... the best conditions, with the most light puting out the full power. most times this is not what happens. if you turn the panel away from the sun just a bit it looses amps. it will still have the voltage for a while( if you were to keep turning the amps would go first then the volts) but that would drop off too if you kept turning away.
also, have you ever seen the college solar car races? most of those cars only do about 20 mph and the size of their solar panels are HUGE. they run strictly on solar. so i dont know the size of your panel, but i dont think its big enough to run the scooter and if you want to run it strictly off solar by charging your batteries then i would guess you would need to ride one day let it charge the next and maybe you would have enough juice to ride it the third day.
solar panels are great, but they are just not strong enough for our applications.
i do like your idea and i think the switching between 24/36volts is kickin. do you have any pics of your scooter? i know most here would love to see how you mounted 6 batteries on an e300.
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 08:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by gameboy
timmy, the solar panels (as a whole) do not put out the amps to run a scooter motor or esc to a scooter motor so you need a battery to run things and a panel to charge, but the battery will still run down and the battery will still need to charge.
solar panels are just not at the stage were they can run things at a decent rate AND be small enough to put on a scooter. you would need a very large solar panel to run a scooter.... not practical.
i will al
quote:
He said his are 3.6amps so adding that to the 14amp batteries will give him more run time and when stopped, the Solar Panels will charger the batteries.
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 16:06:32
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I also mentioned a trailer to mount the Solar panels on. You can make it practical if you have the room to park it.
But like I said, making a Solar Powered scooter is not hard to make and WILL work so I disagree with anyone who says it will never work. Sorry. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 16:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
A boat battery is by nature, a deep cycle battery. Do I need to explain it more?
You don't need to explain, i know marine batteries are designed for deep discharge. I just don't understand why the heck you would put that on a scooter to use Solar Panels.
You can have a trailer hooked up to a scooter with Solar Panels and plug them into your scooter battery parallel. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 05:28:47
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This guy mounted them right on the scooter but I like the trailer idea better. And there is no boat battery on it. The last update was that he put 100 miles on it (and counting)with out plugging it in once. 100% Solar Powered Scooter. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 05:53:03
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 06:59:50
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I said it is impractical on the move. I said it would be slow charging. I said it wouldn't be worth it (dollar investment). Have you asked solar-sail guy how long it takes to charge a 50% DOD pack? Have you evaluated how many pennies you save by doing this, as compared to investing the dollars to buy/setup this rig? Part of the problem is that people seem to be talking about two different things here. 1) solar power use while running, 2) charging while stationary.
Of course it will work. I could also to backflips to travel to Texas. Doesn't mean its worth trying. What is the old quote... Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. --Albert Einstein
Just trying to save someone the aggravation/unnecessary cost of doing this, when plugging in to an outlet is the most reasonable approach. There are outlets everywhere you look. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 07:20:40
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| he installed two sets of folding panels that generate 120 watts in good sun. The bike's batteries hold 2400 watt-hours, so a Michigan summer's 9 hours of daily sun charges the battery about 1/2 full. Don estimates his ride uses only 25% of that. So, even with the occasional cloudy day (unfortunately, not uncommon in Michigan) doesn't mean the bike is dead. But, just in case, the factory charging apparatus is still intact. |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 07:25:01
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Again, where is the cost benefit? Since it isn't mentioned, I'll do some rough numbers for you. He states 5 miles per day use. He states a 120watt panel. Given an insolation rate of 4 hours, that gives (120w*4)=480wh/day. Take a conservate electricity rate of .15 cents per kwh. This means he is saving (.15*.480kwh)=.072 cents per day. What did this cost to build again?
Edit: you posted before I could post this...I will adjust.
Taking the average summer insolation rates under the best conditions he could achieve...see average rates here http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/sum2/94847.txt
He is seeing 4.5 hours of sun per summer day (not 9). So I was very close. Adjusted numbers are .081 cents per summer day under the BEST conditions. Aye aye aye, why am I still here discussing this.... |
Edited by - itchynackers on 08/02/2010 07:34:38 |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 07:39:15
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By the way if he is using 25% of 2400wh = 600 wh, then he probably isn't even fully charging the battery pack. This contributes to an early battery death, and hence much more cost to save a few pennies.
How much additional speed does he get while driving with the panels unfurled again? (sarcasm) |
Edited by - itchynackers on 08/02/2010 07:41:01 |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 07:48:45
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
By the way if he is using 25% of 2400wh = 600 wh, then he probably isn't even fully charging the battery pack. This contributes to an early battery death, and hence much more cost to save a few pennies.
How much additional speed does he get while driving with the panels unfurled again? (sarcasm)
Why do you think he is not charging the battereies? If he uses 25% then he only needs to put 25% back into the battery. If you read the web page, you will see that the scooter has 1000 Solar Panel Powered miles on it and it still has the original batteries....
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 08:28:32
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| Because I don't believe he is putting 600wh back in with only the solar panels. Maybe on some good sunny days, but on average, no, hence contributing to early battery death. Did you look at the insolation data? |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 08:47:14
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But it says he makes sure they are fully charged so no early battery death as you claim and it says 1000miles have been put on it without plugging it in and it has the original batteries. So you think its a lie?
As far as cost and savings, being the fact that it is electric it saves alot of money solar or plug in but i pay $0.24 per Kw where I am. I go about 16-20miles and it costs me $0.48 6 or 7 days a week is about $3 per week.
the project costs about $1000 if you buy it all new. so it would take about 7 years to pay for itself.
But like I said being the fact that it is electric it saves because if I used my car it would be $50 a week in gas instead of $3 in electric. Expensive for gas here in Germany. even a 50cc scooter would be $15 per week in gas instead of $3 in electric. But after 7 years it would be $0 per week. Free!!! Thats the magic number. |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 13:32:17
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| Lets see, $1000 invested at say 10% yield for seven years....now it cost you $2000. Anyway, I say let people make their own mistakes. Its human nature not to learn from the past. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 17:01:02
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
Lets see, $1000 invested at say 10% yield for seven years....now it cost you $2000. Anyway, I say let people make their own mistakes. Its human nature not to learn from the past.
I think you are making a mistake. Your way would be to spend $1000 and have nothing instead of Solar Panels where after the RTI you have free energy for the rest of your life.
There is no mistake in investing in Solar Power.
Some people have electric cars and a home charging Solar Station that also powers there house and even has energy to spare and is sold back through the grid for an even faster RTI.
I think Solar Power should be part of the Standards including at least 50% of vehicles being Electric with home based Solar Stations.
Solar scooters can also work without batteries. It's actually more efficient without batteries but there is a benefit of being able to store the Solar Energy in them.
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gameboy
Administrator
just north of austin
tx
USA
1460 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 17:05:00
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i dont really want to get into this discussion, my point has been made, but i do want to point out that as a rule ( and we all know rules are meant to be broken ) SLA batteries dont last 7 years. avg. life span is 2-4 most get 2, the people who take great care with there batts get 3-4 and those who take really great care of their batts ( those who buy desulfators and rotate do all the other stuff that makes a battery last) get 5-6 years. there are also those who buy the really expensive batteries (cant think of the brand right now) that are made for the aerospace industry and those you might get 7 yrs out of, but as an average battery you buy off the shelf 7 years is not an expected lifespan.
so you need to factor in the cost of new batts to the equation. |
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 17:52:54
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| He is ignoring any cost analysis and simply touting the benefits of solar. In the real world, money rules. You can't cite extreme examples of solar use to bolster an argument for solar on a simple scooter. If we all had battery-less (more efficient) vehicles, then I guess progress throughout the known world would stop (for the slow ones, its dark). I could put a hundred thousand dollar solar system on my house, AND sell electricity to the grid, AND go 5 miles per day for "free", but I'd be a friggin moron if I could only recover a small portion of that per day. Yes, if I used the system for 100 years, I'd recover the cost, but what would my $100,000 cash be worth if put into a safe, low yield investment? A helluvalot. Think of the good I could do (investment in solar businesses) with the new money! I suspect it would do more good than recovering a few pennies per day. Jesus, I can't explain it in simpler terms. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 18:26:27
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quote:
Originally posted by gameboy
i dont really want to get into this discussion, my point has been made, but i do want to point out that as a rule ( and we all know rules are meant to be broken ) SLA batteries dont last 7 years. avg. life span is 2-4 most get 2, the people who take great care with there batts get 3-4 and those who take really great care of their batts ( those who buy desulfators and rotate do all the other stuff that makes a battery last) get 5-6 years. there are also those who buy the really expensive batteries (cant think of the brand right now) that are made for the aerospace industry and those you might get 7 yrs out of, but as an average battery you buy off the shelf 7 years is not an expected lifespan.
so you need to factor in the cost of new batts to the equation.
the reason why the batteries do not come into the equations is because they last about as long as you said regardless if they are charged by Solar panels or a wall outlet. |
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timmy2time
Journeyman Modder
399 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 18:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by itchynackers
He is ignoring any cost analysis and simply touting the benefits of solar. In the real world, money rules. You can't cite extreme examples of solar use to bolster an argument for solar on a simple scooter. If we all had battery-less (more efficient) vehicles, then I guess progress throughout the known world would stop (for the slow ones, its dark). I could put a hundred thousand dollar solar system on my house, AND sell electricity to the grid, AND go 5 miles per day for "free", but I'd be a friggin moron if I could only recover a small portion of that per day. Yes, if I used the system for 100 years, I'd recover the cost, but what would my $100,000 cash be worth if put into a safe, low yield investment? A helluvalot. Think of the good I could do (investment in solar businesses) with the new money! I suspect it would do more good than recovering a few pennies per day. Jesus, I can't explain it in simpler terms.
Actually if you are American and own a house and property, you can apply for a Grant and it would be funded by the Government. You would pay less than 25% of it as long as it is not for commercial use. Money is not everything especially when money has different values at different times. Less value in the future. But Solar Haters like you should think also along the lines of our grand kids, great grand kids and their kids because your ideas of using fossil fuels because it is more practical for you right now is kinda short thought. Half is already all gone so another 100 years and there is nothing left. I say Start investing in Solar today for humanity not just for your temporary pocket.
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itchynackers
Journeyman Modder
Janesville
WI
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 20:06:40
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| Again, you are using generalizations to back a flawed argument. Actually, I do have solar panels. That is why I know what is practical, as opposed to what is published about them. Do you have any solar panels, or just a grandios ideology about them? |
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HELP! Solar powered motor?
